John and Bob explore the sweeping transformation of church life in America, focusing on how cultural shifts—particularly post–World War II—reshaped the spiritual landscape. They trace the move from rural to urban living and its influence on church models, highlighting the evolution from relational, community-driven gatherings to production-based, entertainment-centric services. With anecdotes from their personal journeys and ministry experiences, they describe how this shift has affected not only the church structure but also the behavior and identity of its leaders and members.br br Their conversation spans a wide range of influences—from Amy Semple McPherson and John Alexander Dowie to the Jesus People Movement and the rise of megachurch culture—showing how spectacle and self-promotion became normalized. They also delve into theological implications, such as the meaning of the word “church” and its roots in the Greek word ecclesia, contrasting it with modern interpretations. The dialogue is both historical and deeply personal, examining how authenticity, vulnerability, and meaningful relationships are often displaced by celebrity personas and polished performances.br br 00:00 Introductionbr 01:04 The Boomer Generation and Cultural Shiftsbr 02:57 Narcissism and the Rise of Self-Promotionbr 04:57 Church as Entertainmentbr 06:52 From Rural to Urban Church Modelsbr 10:08 Orange County and the Urban Explosionbr 11:10 Early Revivalists and Narcissism in Rural Contextsbr 13:15 Amy Semple McPherson and Early Religious Showmanshipbr 15:01 John Alexander Dowie and Priming Los Angelesbr 18:01 California’s Influence on Church and Culturebr 19:47 The Rise of West Coast Mega-Ministriesbr 21:08 Contrasting Rural and Urban Lifebr 24:16 World War II, Urgency, and Shifting Religious Tonebr 27:02 The GI Bill and Cultural Fragmentationbr 29:42 Early Church Models vs. Urban Productionbr 31:43 Cult Leaders Targeting Rural Audiencesbr 33:32 Dowie’s Urban Strategy at the Chicago World’s Fairbr 35:01 Elixirs, Medicine, and the Rise of Pentecostalismbr 37:00 How Church Became a Performancebr 38:16 Why Mainstream Church Can Feel Triggeringbr 40:00 The Word “Church” and Its Strange Originsbr 42:55 The Assembly and Paul’s Intentbr 45:06 Religious Freedom and Cultural Participationbr 47:01 Barna Research, the “Dones,” and House Church Movementbr 51:05 Disconnect Between Stage Personas and Real Lifebr 53:24 The Normalization of Performance in Worshipbr 55:08 Tithing, Community, and Supporting the Needybr 56:43 Communion and the Commercialization of Sacramentsbr 57:27 Stage Persona vs. Private Reality in Ministrybr 59:27 Ernest Angley and the “Man of God” Phenomenonbr 1:00:53 Narcissism Rooted in Childhood Traumabr 1:03:05 Good vs.